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Episode 2:06 Review & Discussion
October 29, 2014
5:51 pm
Afalstein

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A lot of people have been commenting about Ward's escape and about how Coulson should have--and possibly did--see it coming. A pair of handcuffs IS incredibly inadequate for a one-man army like Ward, and I did think Coulson's You Suck speech was almost a bit TOO much. So I can see where people are coming from.

Unfortunately, I can't see a reason for a ploy like that. Ensuring that Ward hates or at least feels betrayed by SHIELD, then arranging for his escape? Why would he do that? Recall that right now, Hydra doesn't know who's in charge of SHIELD, or where they're located. Letting Ward break out completely destroys that advantage, particularly as Coulson made it plain SHIELD will never take him back, and turned Ward over (or at least made him think he did) to the person he hates the most in the world. Also, it jeapordizes their deal with the senator, who after all could turn on them in a moment. Cold as Coulson's become, he's not cold enough to sacrifice an entire convoy of soldiers and risk some of their greatest secrets just to gain an unclear advantage.

Honestly, the "Walk of Shame" convinced me more than Coulson's You Suck speech. Coulson's speech came a bit out of nowhere, shaking up the "friendly chats" Ward's been having with everyone, but the reactions of the rest of the team were in total agreement with it. Ward betrayed them all on a very personal level, often with very heartbreaking results (let's not forget that Ward is responsible for all the feels we've been getting with Fitz).

So why the grossly inadequate handcuffs? Honestly, I'm inclined to think it's part of the show's overall poor production quality. The most secure SHIELD facility is guarded by two guards behind a sliding glass door. The Air Force keeps all of SHIELD's most sensitive material in a facility with a wooden barrier. Air Force prisoners are stuffed in the trunk of a car. SHIELD's "safe house" in Belgium is an incredibly unsecure house with extremely smashable windows and a door that pops open. The writers, for all their skill with dialogue and plot twists, can be incredibly sloppy sometimes. And, I think, this is one of those times.

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AgentSkyeWard084, weapon_hunter
October 29, 2014
7:25 pm
AgentFC

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Afalstein said
Unfortunately, I can't see a reason for a ploy like that. Ensuring that Ward hates or at least feels betrayed by SHIELD, then arranging for his escape? Why would he do that? Recall that right now, Hydra doesn't know who's in charge of SHIELD, or where they're located. Letting Ward break out completely destroys that advantage, particularly as Coulson made it plain SHIELD will never take him back, and turned Ward over (or at least made him think he did) to the person he hates the most in the world. Also, it jeapordizes their deal with the senator, who after all could turn on them in a moment. Cold as Coulson's become, he's not cold enough to sacrifice an entire convoy of soldiers and risk some of their greatest secrets just to gain an unclear advantage.

Had to rewatch the episode again to analyze (overanalyzing is my trait LOL), considering I was very occupied with the Marvel event yesterday. But I agree, Coulson's behavior seemed out of place. My guess, he's being overprotective for Skye, that he lost his cool towards Ward? Or, the effect of the GH formula is starting to play on his emotional state, especially with how the promo for next episode hinted.

October 29, 2014
9:24 pm
Hawkeye86
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My friend actually speculated the Coulson had given some sort of mission to Ward, which is why the handcuffs were the only measure in place to stop him. Though I have my doubts, even ignoring how Ward betrayed the team on a personal level and all the agents he murdered in cold blood, Ward clearly is mentally unstable. Even if I was Hydra I wouldn't trust him. The May/Scarlotti fight was epic, though I wish that Mockingbird was the one that took him down. The Morse/Hunter banter was amusing, though I don't know how long that can remain that way before getting annoying. I liked Hydra's plan, it was pretty clever, even if they got outsmarted by Coulson. Seems like SHIELD has a degree of official recognition now. I wonder how this will effect Talbot, since his whole purpose on the show was to hunt SHIELD down. Hopefully SHIELD starts to grow back now as an organization.

And I was pumped the SHIELD SWAT Agents showed up again, hopefully we see a little more of them and not a recycle of the same 5 or 6 agents when it comes to missions.

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Agent K80
October 29, 2014
10:17 pm
AgentFC

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Here's a wonderful review of the episode from io9 (is the writer a member of this forum? she spoke similar speculations to some of us...)

http://io9.com/whos-getting-pl.....1652142223

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Hawkeye86
October 30, 2014
10:43 am
Agent K80

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Hawkeye86 said

MR. T said
And what’s with Talbot caring about how many agents SHIELD lost? I’m a big bad guy who act all tough, but I really care about SHIELD? I don’t buy it.

Talbot may be a jerk, but he's never really been a bad guy. More of a good guy who was misguided. And him caring about how many men SHIELD lost, along with Senator Ward's speech and the fact SHIELD handed over Grant Ward to the FBI was to show that the US Government now acknowledges that SHIELD and Hydra are not one in the same, and that SHIELD isn't a terrorist group like Hydra. It's the first step towards SHIELD regaining some form of legitimacy.

Still no signs or even a mention of General Ross :(

October 30, 2014
10:47 am
Agent K80

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meredithchandler73 said

Tag - I suppose we are meant to believe that the guy getting the tattoo is the one that did the alien carving on the painting, but perhaps there's more than 1 person out there doing the carving? I mean, what was that guy doing anywhere near a 500 year old painting??? Either way, can't wait to see more of that!

There is definitely more than one person... i think the tattoo guy is killing those who are drawing the symbols

based on the photos from the next episode

October 30, 2014
10:48 am
Agent K80

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Hawkeye86 said

My friend actually speculated the Coulson had given some sort of mission to Ward, which is why the handcuffs were the only measure in place to stop him. Though I have my doubts, even ignoring how Ward betrayed the team on a personal level and all the agents he murdered in cold blood, Ward clearly is mentally unstable. Even if I was Hydra I wouldn't trust him. The May/Scarlotti fight was epic, though I wish that Mockingbird was the one that took him down. The Morse/Hunter banter was amusing, though I don't know how long that can remain that way before getting annoying. I liked Hydra's plan, it was pretty clever, even if they got outsmarted by Coulson. Seems like SHIELD has a degree of official recognition now. I wonder how this will effect Talbot, since his whole purpose on the show was to hunt SHIELD down. Hopefully SHIELD starts to grow back now as an organization.

And I was pumped the SHIELD SWAT Agents showed up again, hopefully we see a little more of them and not a recycle of the same 5 or 6 agents when it comes to missions.

Scarlotti helped to erase the painful memory of Mickey Rourke's crimson dynamo/whiplash combo.

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AgentFC
October 30, 2014
10:49 am
Agent K80

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Afalstein said

So why the grossly inadequate handcuffs? Honestly, I'm inclined to think it's part of the show's overall poor production quality. The most secure SHIELD facility is guarded by two guards behind a sliding glass door. The Air Force keeps all of SHIELD's most sensitive material in a facility with a wooden barrier. Air Force prisoners are stuffed in the trunk of a car. SHIELD's "safe house" in Belgium is an incredibly unsecure house with extremely smashable windows and a door that pops open. The writers, for all their skill with dialogue and plot twists, can be incredibly sloppy sometimes. And, I think, this is one of those times.

Two words - budget cuts

October 30, 2014
2:37 pm
Erynus
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What i want to know is how Talbot survived to that termite bomb (Splinter bomb?) that disintegrate anyone just by touching him. Either he was hit and then turn into ashes or didn’t and then don’t need a sling. Or maybe Talbot is dead and he is Bashki again.
As for the alien writings i think the carving on the painting was a test, then, proved that the writings made the painting indestructible, tattooing it on himself would make him unkillable too.

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meredithchandler73, AgentSkyeWard084
"Time to grow up, kid -- time to stop playin' pretty girl and face some hard facts. There are questions you will not get answers to. There are things going on that you do not get to know about. And rest assured, I will never slip up in case you feel like bein' coy." -Colonel Nicholas J. Fury.
October 30, 2014
3:20 pm
DashRendar

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Erynus said

What i want to know is how Talbot survived to that termite bomb (Splinter bomb?) that disintegrate anyone just by touching him. Either he was hit and then turn into ashes or didn’t and then don’t need a sling. Or maybe Talbot is dead and he is Bashki again.

I was wondering the same thing, the weapon was obviously thrown right at him. Either it hits him and he's dead, or misses and he's fine. Why was his arm in a sling?

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AgentSkyeWard084, Agent K
October 30, 2014
3:31 pm
meredithchandler73

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Erynus said

What i want to know is how Talbot survived to that termite bomb (Splinter bomb?) that disintegrate anyone just by touching him. Either he was hit and then turn into ashes or didn’t and then don’t need a sling. Or maybe Talbot is dead and he is Bashki again.
As for the alien writings i think the carving on the painting was a test, then, proved that the writings made the painting indestructible, tattooing it on himself would make him unkillable too.

OOOOH! That's a very interesting idea - that having the writings makes someone unkillable. But that seems too easy - I mean, then we'll have people finding out about it and lots of people running around with the alien writing on them! The thing is, in almost all other cases, the writing is carved. Does tattooing count as carving? I don't think so. The first time we saw the alien writing was in Eye Spy - but that was written in chalk on a chalkboard. Why wasn't that carved? Was someone trying to recreate it?

Rewatched the ep and I am still totally confused as to which Ward brother is telling the truth. I still believe that it's all about Skye for Ward, so I think he would use his freedom to try to make contact with Skye's father. I'm not sure that Ward knows Skye's father has teamed up with Whitehall/HYDRA. I think the team just found out about the obelisk being given to Whitehall by Skye's father in this ep. Would Ward try to seek out Raina? Not sure she would be of any help at this point. I don't think she has any cards to deal anymore, though I guess it's lucky for her that Whitehall got the obelisk so he doesn't have to go after her.

Really loved the looks the team gave Ward as he was being walked out, and Jemma's, "If I ever see you again, I will kill you." Shades of Fitz telling Garrett, "You're going to suffer for what you've done. And I plan to be a very big part of that." I understand that Fitz is having a tough time being around Simmons, but I hope he can come to terms with his feelings sooner rather than later. While I'm glad the show doesn't usually do "quick fixes" for things, I just hate to see how strained their relationship is right now and I really don't think I could handle it for a whole season!!!

October 30, 2014
10:18 pm
Hawkeye86
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DashRendar said

Erynus said

What i want to know is how Talbot survived to that termite bomb (Splinter bomb?) that disintegrate anyone just by touching him. Either he was hit and then turn into ashes or didn’t and then don’t need a sling. Or maybe Talbot is dead and he is Bashki again.

I was wondering the same thing, the weapon was obviously thrown right at him. Either it hits him and he's dead, or misses and he's fine. Why was his arm in a sling?

He dodged it, fell and dislocated his shoulder.

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Agent Aeryn, Faldang
October 30, 2014
11:45 pm
Agent Soraya

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I just think it would make more sense for Ward to become a true mercenary at this point rather than to try to endear himself to the team. He's just a lost puppy, looking for a handler, without one he's just a psychopath. No way Coulson gave him a 'secret' mission, he was livid when Ward even mentioned the idea of being on his team; it's more plausible they are gonna track him to the 'resources' he claims to have. I'm still wondering, how does he know so much about Skye's heritage? I thought Raina only gave him the general gist of things, like the story of the village. How did he find out it was really a HYDRA outpost? Did Garrett tell him at some point off-screen? Maybe Ward will kidnap and deliver Skye to her Dad, only for The Doctor to kill Ward for his troubles, just cuz he can. I'd lurve that. Now that InHumans has been announced as being at least 4-5 years out, I doubt Skye will turn out to be one, could we really wait that long to find out her origins?

I wonder when Deathlok will make an appearance since is out there on his own all 70s Bruce Banner style? Is Ward gonna try to be some allegedly good guy drifter going from town to town trying to find himself? Just the idea of that makes me itch.

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meredithchandler73
October 31, 2014
2:18 am
AgentSkyeWard084

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I have a question, are we still going to see a lot more of Hunter? He always says he's keeping his options open and at the end of the episode it looks like his packed up and about to take off. But he is part of the main cast so I'm just wondering where he's going and how much are we going to see him?

This is definitely not protocol! - Grant Ward

October 31, 2014
2:43 am
AgentFC

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AgentSkyeWard084 said
I have a question, are we still going to see a lot more of Hunter? He always says he’s keeping his options open and at the end of the episode it looks like his packed up and about to take off. But he is part of the main cast so I’m just wondering where he’s going and how much are we going to see him?

I actually thought he stayed with the team considering he was seen with May at the end of this episode…
Just realized that he’s not present/credited for episode 7 /wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-cry.gif

Perhaps they are simply giving him excuse to take the week off, just like Bakshi and Whitehall? Which explains why I think Nick Blood did tweet something about going back to UK. I’m sure he’ll be back eventually, though if they follow the route of the comic, he might end up in London after all /wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif

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October 31, 2014
1:23 pm
meredithchandler73

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Agent Soraya said

I just think it would make more sense for Ward to become a true mercenary at this point rather than to try to endear himself to the team. He's just a lost puppy, looking for a handler, without one he's just a psychopath. No way Coulson gave him a 'secret' mission, he was livid when Ward even mentioned the idea of being on his team; it's more plausible they are gonna track him to the 'resources' he claims to have. I'm still wondering, how does he know so much about Skye's heritage? I thought Raina only gave him the general gist of things, like the story of the village. How did he find out it was really a HYDRA outpost? Did Garrett tell him at some point off-screen? Maybe Ward will kidnap and deliver Skye to her Dad, only for The Doctor to kill Ward for his troubles, just cuz he can. I'd lurve that. Now that InHumans has been announced as being at least 4-5 years out, I doubt Skye will turn out to be one, could we really wait that long to find out her origins?

I wonder when Deathlok will make an appearance since is out there on his own all 70s Bruce Banner style? Is Ward gonna try to be some allegedly good guy drifter going from town to town trying to find himself? Just the idea of that makes me itch.

I, too, find it hard to believe Coulson sent Ward on a secret mission. And the more I think about it, the more I believe that BOTH Ward brothers were lying in some way or another. It doesn't seem like Christian Ward is part of HYDRA, but you can have bad guys who aren't part of HYDRA. And I think it keeps it more interesting to have different possible threats rather than just one. And while Skye's father has brought the obelisk to Whitehall/HYDRA, I don't think they have formed a real partnership and could easily part ways if/when their goals aren't the same. (I can see Whitehall wanting to experiment on Skye, while her father would want to save her, of course.)

I don't think we've seen the last of Raina. SHIELD tagged her, so they can find her at any time. She doesn't seem to be of any use to Whitehall right now, so she is probably off his radar, but there are hints that she is something special ("What will I become?" she asked of Garrett) - maybe like Skye, maybe not.

And the first time Ward mentioned Skye's father, I also wondered, "When the hell did he get that info?" All we saw Raina tell Ward was that she heard a story about a baby...and the parents were the monsters who destroyed a Chinese village. Raina hadn't even confirmed that the baby was Skye. So, did he really get more info from Raina about the father? Would Raina really have shared that info with Ward?

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Agent Aeryn
October 31, 2014
2:10 pm
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Hawkeye86 said

DashRendar said

Erynus said

What i want to know is how Talbot survived to that termite bomb (Splinter bomb?) that disintegrate anyone just by touching him. Either he was hit and then turn into ashes or didn’t and then don’t need a sling. Or maybe Talbot is dead and he is Bashki again.

I was wondering the same thing, the weapon was obviously thrown right at him. Either it hits him and he's dead, or misses and he's fine. Why was his arm in a sling?

He dodged it, fell and dislocated his shoulder.

On the other hand what Erynus said could explain why Talbot knew about Grant. Big Ward seemed quite surprised about Talbot knowing that little piece of family info.
Basicly we didn't actually see what happened and unless I missed it, it was never specificly mentioned.

Director Coulson: "I can't believe I am the only one seeing this right now" (Agent May vs. Agent May)
October 31, 2014
2:48 pm
Agent Aeryn

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meredithchandler73 said
I, too, find it hard to believe Coulson sent Ward on a secret mission. And the more I think about it, the more I believe that BOTH Ward brothers were lying in some way or another. It doesn't seem like Christian Ward is part of HYDRA, but you can have bad guys who aren't part of HYDRA. And I think it keeps it more interesting to have different possible threats rather than just one.

I agree with you on all counts :) But I think Christian is lying and hiding really nasty things and I think Ward's telling more like half truths. And more than one threat would keep it interesting.

And while Skye's father has brought the obelisk to Whitehall/HYDRA, I don't think they have formed a real partnership and could easily part ways if/when their goals aren't the same. (I can see Whitehall wanting to experiment on Skye, while her father would want to save her, of course.)

Well I think her father does need Skye and the Deviner toghter for a specific reason. And he tested it out on Raina, so maybe he wants to do a little experiment on Skye himself ? On the other hand Ward's explanation for Skye's father taking out all those in that village because he lost it sounds believable seeing how he reacted with Skye. I'm sorry for Skye her mom's dead (if what Ward says is true).One thing I don't get is if Skye's father could kill an entire village and all he wants is Skye why doesn't he approach her himself? Why did he need Raina to bring her to him? And why when Skye went to his lab alone didn't he grab the chance to reconnect with her? Many many questions :D

I don't think we've seen the last of Raina. SHIELD tagged her, so they can find her at any time. She doesn't seem to be of any use to Whitehall right now, so she is probably off his radar, but there are hints that she is something special ("What will I become?" she asked of Garrett) - maybe like Skye, maybe not.

Yes and I'm still wondering what happened with that thing Whithall put on her hand before.
About Raina, it seems Skye's father found er on the street and kind off raised her? Maybe her being special or the same "inside" as Skye does have to do with experimenting.

And the first time Ward mentioned Skye's father, I also wondered, "When the hell did he get that info?" All we saw Raina tell Ward was that she heard a story about a baby...and the parents were the monsters who destroyed a Chinese village. Raina hadn't even confirmed that the baby was Skye. So, did he really get more info from Raina about the father? Would Raina really have shared that info with Ward?

I had the same thing but it was sugested Raina could have told Ward off camera which is a possibility.
But there's a difference in that story. Raina says the parents were the monsters that destroyed that Chinese village, Ward says it was Skye's dad because he lost it after losing Skye's mom and Skye.
Also Ward said he could bring Skye to her dad eventhough Skye told him Raina was gone.

Ahhh this show keeps me guessing...which I like !! :D

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October 31, 2014
3:59 pm
AgentFC

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Agent Aeryn said

Hawkeye86 said

DashRendar said

Erynus said

What i want to know is how Talbot survived to that termite bomb (Splinter bomb?) that disintegrate anyone just by touching him. Either he was hit and then turn into ashes or didn’t and then don’t need a sling. Or maybe Talbot is dead and he is Bashki again.

I was wondering the same thing, the weapon was obviously thrown right at him. Either it hits him and he’s dead, or misses and he’s fine. Why was his arm in a sling?

He dodged it, fell and dislocated his shoulder.

On the other hand what Erynus said could explain why Talbot knew about Grant. Big Ward seemed quite surprised about Talbot knowing that little piece of family info.

Bakshi disguising as Talbot again would be a nice twist, which explains why he suddenly shook hand with May, and why Bakshi was absent last episode.

I do however think the other way, that Talbot was intentionally left alive so that he could stir more heat against SHIELD, which was the goal of that raid on the UN. As for him showing respect for May, it’s obvious Talbot is actually a good guy, just a bit stubborn (and an as*hole). As annoying as he is, he’s still a General and knows how it feels to lose soldiers, that’s probably why he showed sympathy towards May.

In the end of season 1, it was the government who apprehended Grant Ward. So it’s easy to assume that Talbot knows information about him because of that. Beside, I’m sure he finds it weird that a Senator suddenly have interest about SHIELD and even go to lengths to fund his team. So Talbot must have did some digging himself to see possible connections (I know I’d do that). Which further makes me think that the Talbot we saw was the real man after all, considering Whitehall and Bakshi possibly have no idea about Grant Ward’s existence since he was basically loyal to Garret, not to Hydra. Whitehall seems like pure Hydra, not a part of SHIELD.

The part with Ward knowing about Skye’s father was a bit puzzling as well, though there are 2 possible reason about this:
– There was more conversation between him and Raina behind the scene.
– He’s just twisting information to get Skye’s attention and trust. He could be lying all along, right? Tbh, I totally can’t trust a guy who kept assuring that he’s telling the truth, especially when he’s a proven master in deceiving others.

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meredithchandler73, Agent Aeryn
October 31, 2014
4:23 pm
Agent K
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Just watched the episode and wondering...if they didn't want Ward to escape, why did they remove the cover from his head just before he went into the van?

As others have said, cuffs have been proven to be no obstacle to May.

Don't think Coulson trusts either Ward - but that he agreed to the 'transfer' to collect on the Senator's side of the bargain, without having to renege on his end of the 'deal'.

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